Shooting

Man shot in Carbondale

2012-10-01T01:00:00Z 2013-07-29T12:22:50Z Man shot in CarbondaleBY LINDA RUSH, The Southern The Southern
October 01, 2012 1:00 am  • 

CARBONDALE — A shooting shortly after 1 a.m. Sunday at the intersection of Main Street and University Avenue sent one man to Memorial Hospital of Carbondale with a gunshot wound and left part of the roadway blocked until about 3:15 a.m. as police investigated.

Lt. Mark Goddard said a report of shots fired was received a little after 1 a.m. The shooting apparently stemmed from a fight that began on the southeast corner of the intersection and spilled into the street.

Goddard confirmed one person, a male, had been shot. The victim was transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries, according to the Carbondale police website.

Kevin Kirkwood, owner of the nearby Ice Box bar and grill, said some of those involved in the fight had been denied entrance to the bar because they would not allow themselves to be searched.

“After 10 p.m. at any special event, all people are searched before they are allowed into the club,” Kirkwood said.

He went outside and walked to the corner to try to get the group to settle down.

“There were just a few fighting, but more people had gathered to watch,” Kirkwood said. “The crowd was in the middle of the intersection when the shots were fired — maybe two or three; I have no idea.”

Police squad cars and the department’s forensics van were all parked blocking the left lanes of both streets. Main Street is Illinois 13 westbound and University Avenue is U.S. 51 southbound.

Carbondale Fire Department set up its trailer-mounted emergency floodlight tower at the scene to help police who were searching for evidence.

No information was available from Memorial Hospital of Carbondale on the condition of the victim Sunday.

linda.rush@thesouthern.com

618-351-5079

Copyright 2015 The Southern. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

(32) Comments

  1. MMike
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    MMike - October 09, 2012 10:48 pm
    cchs98: Two points:

    Admitting weak students to get MAP grant money is pathetic regardless of what city they happen to be from or what race they are.

    The problems at SIU are not causing problems in the middle school. Carbondale's demographics have a lot to do with the fact that many near by town were "sunset towns" where blacks were not welcome.
  2. MickeeD
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    MickeeD - October 09, 2012 4:48 pm
    I would argue there are a few students, with said ACT scores, who are coming down here to escape that kind of environment. Unfortunately by osmosis they end up bringing it with them.
  3. cchs98
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    cchs98 - October 09, 2012 3:57 pm
    I'm not even sure what you have to do to receive a 14 on your ACT. That's embarrassing. I'm sorry, but if SIU continues to recruit inner city Chicago thugs, Carbondale and it's university are going to continue to fail.

    People are moving out of Carbondale in droves. Not only because of the tax hike like madblogger pointed out, but for safety reasons as well. The same ghetto trash that participated in this early morning shooting are the same ones having kids that are in Carbondale's grade schools. You'll find the same type of behavior there as well. Playgrounds aren't safe, buses aren't safe and parents with children are NOT putting up with it. There is a clear common denominator here and I wish people would/could recognize it.
  4. OLD JOE
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    OLD JOE - October 08, 2012 12:49 pm
    Many times it's more interesting for me to read than comment. I love seeing what other people has to say!!
  5. MMike
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    MMike - October 08, 2012 12:35 pm
    We are bringing in "students" with ACT scores as low as 14. It is insane.
  6. cchs98
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    cchs98 - October 08, 2012 12:15 pm
    SIU's graduation rate for 4 year degrees has been below 40% for some time. In fact, it's much worse. School slike ISU are going to gobble up the quality students while Carbondale excepts the rejection. Currently, ISU's 4 year graduation rate is at 80%. They've topped out their enrolement and will have to turn students away this coming fall semester. Those with higher gpa's will be admitted while the other's have to walk. Not to say these aren't bright kids, but the quality of students that will make up the average student population at ISU will continue to rise while SIU's will continue to decline. Average and below student from Chicago will continue to flood SIU's campus, drop out and continue to increas the crime rate around the town. Sad. The ONLY thing that will change SIU's reputation and success is it's leadership. Poshard and Cheng need to go
  7. cchs98
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    cchs98 - October 07, 2012 9:39 pm
    100% not true.
  8. OLD JOE
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    OLD JOE - October 02, 2012 5:37 pm
    SouthernGirl I never got my rentals section 8 approved, so I don't know much about section 8.
    But I do know people that is to poor to get into public housing. In fact I give one young couple one year free rent to try and help them out.
  9. JItterBug
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    JItterBug - October 02, 2012 4:40 pm
    Southern Girl: AWS means Academic Watch Status not Academic Warning List(AEWS) theirs a difference. You need to look this stuff up before you post.

    "too poor for Section 8 housing"???? Do you know what section 8 is?

    Section 8 is when the government pays a portion of rent due to landlords on behalf of low income households. So when you say you were too poor it makes me think you are completely making this up.

    Also, Honors classes don't cost any additional $$$. If you are smart to get in you are in.

    Additionally, I went to CCHS so I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT and you don't.

    So, back to original point that CCHS has opportunities you can't find anywhere else in the area. And you will be exposed to a variety of cultures that will expand your mind.



  10. SouthernILGirl
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    SouthernILGirl - October 02, 2012 4:08 pm
    Jitterbug, as someone who grew up in a household that was too poor for section 8, I deeply DEEPLY resent that comment. I have a Masters Degree and was in the top 10% of my high school class (Harrisburg). It's not the poor kids that are the problem. (And even if it were - would you be able to do well academically when you can't afford ANY extracurriculars or the things needed in honors level classes or hell, FOOD before going to school?)
  11. SouthernILGirl
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    SouthernILGirl - October 02, 2012 4:04 pm
    http://iirc.niu.edu/SearchResult.aspx?SearchText=carbondale+&type=SCHOOL The little red "AWS" means academic warning status.
  12. JItterBug
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    JItterBug - October 02, 2012 1:56 pm
    Another Correction: CCHS is NOT on academic warning.

    Plus: To be brutally honest if you take out the "Section 8" kids out of the equation. CCHS scores go way way up.

    So like I said my PREVIOUS post if a kid has the ambition to succeed CCHS he/she will be placed in the track 1 or even the honors classes (which will give you college credit) and have access to the best education in the area.

    And as a bonus they will have exposure to a variety of people that they would otherwise not.

    I admit Carbondale has issues, but lets not get crazy here.
  13. SouthernILGirl
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    SouthernILGirl - October 02, 2012 12:01 pm
    Why aren't the section 8 homes and government housing projects in other communities hotbeds of crime? The participants in these crimes are almost always students or former students - not families who are in section 8 and planning to stay in the area...
  14. SouthernILGirl
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    SouthernILGirl - October 02, 2012 11:58 am
    http://iirc.niu.edu/ Carbondale schools are no better academically than other schools in this area. They are pretty much all failing and all on academic warning status....
  15. SouthernILGirl
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    SouthernILGirl - October 02, 2012 11:52 am
    AMEN!
  16. old saluki
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    old saluki - October 02, 2012 10:43 am
    precipitous decline. sorry.
  17. old saluki
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    old saluki - October 02, 2012 10:37 am
    Agreed: Since the 1980's (when I attended), the town has suffered a precipitous. It's disheartening to visit now.
  18. JItterBug
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    JItterBug - October 02, 2012 10:23 am
    SmallVoiceSI - Time to pull the head out of you know what.

    Budslick, Glisson, and the other power landlords in C'dale are BIG TIME REPUBLICANS not liberals.

    Also, Segregation is a conservative virtue. Remember Jim Crow and all that. Not a liberal thing. Can't believe I actually had to point that out.
  19. JItterBug
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    JItterBug - October 02, 2012 10:19 am
    One correction here. Carbondale has the best schools hands down in the Southern Illinois for those students who want to succeed. The average test score is driven down due the number of kids that live in poverty.

    However, CCHS is large enough where it groups students into different groups based on academic performance. No other school in South ILL can match the facilities and opportunities CCHS provides.

    Also, Carbondale's diversity in its student population better prepares these kids for the real world.
  20. madblogger
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    madblogger - October 02, 2012 12:00 am
    There was a time when Carbondale was actually the heart of Southern Illinois. At one time, they had the only indoor mall in the area, and the mall was filled to the max with not only anchor stores, but specialty shops. This coincided with a time when SIU was predominantly a university that catered to citizens south of I-64. There was a time when the area north and south of the areas from Lewis Lane to Illinois avenue was an ok part of town. A time when gun-play was almost unheard of. A time, when the Halloween party was a great time.

    It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the cart. As far as SIU goes, recruitment/enrollment became the most important aspect of the college. Even today, they base their success upon enrollment numbers. It goes to say, that when any university makes enrollment their top priority, the quality of the student is reduced. Enrollment may be good, but the graduation rate is dismal. In the late 80's/early 90's, SIU was considered one of the top engineering colleges in the state. The bottom line is, SIU is not once what it was. I liken it to Wal Mart and a specialty shop. Sure, Wal Mart has some good stuff, but nowhere near the quality of a specialty shop. SIU wants Wal Mart numbers... the students determine whether it's hamburger or filet mignon.

    The last part to the equation is this: Carbondale excised too many taxes on its citizens. The average non-SIU employee found it impossible to live affordably within the city. With SIU's movement to enrollment numbers (based on the awesome teaching ability from before), home-owners became landlords, often converting their ex-homes to accommodate the maximum amount of students possible. In the 80's, people in Carbondale still lived in their homes... from the 90's on, they became landlords. I think you will find a direct correlation with property values and taxes. A 100K home in Carbondale was only 30K in Carterville, maybe 25K in Cambria and 40K in Herrin. If you're looking to just live in a home, well, it only makes sense to commute. (course now, that same 100K home would be 90K in Carterville, and maybe 50K-60K in Cambria, while 40K in Herrin.) My point is, the cost of living will determine where the middle class lives. Most college towns have elevated rental costs due to shortages, but Carbondale used to be somewhat affordable.

    As far as the crime rate in Carbondale, I think a direct comparison can be made to permanent residents vs. transient residents. As the graduation rate has dropped below 40% for 4 year degrees, those who stay, desperate in measure, will succumb to whatever means necessary to survive. I wish there was a chart that displayed SIU's enrollment numbers, drop numbers, permanent resident numbers, and crime rate. I think, as you watch the enrollment numbers and drop numbers rise, you will see an increase in crime.
  21. MMike
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    MMike - October 01, 2012 10:20 pm
    For those who do not know, many moons ago there was a posted called "smallvoice". He and Cowboy were blood enemies. Smallvoice was sincere but could be quite abrasive. Anyway, there was a weird point of people making doppelgangers of other posters. Someone created "SmallVoiceSI". I don't know who. Whoever it is is back - if they were ever gone. Seems to be following job creator's stick.

    I have no idea why people cannot just be themselves. Sarcasm is OK, and job creator was funny at times, but mostly these name switchers cause problems. Just say what you mean, mean what you say and be who you are.
  22. MickeeD
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    MickeeD - October 01, 2012 10:14 pm
    "MickeeD, why did you elect to live elsewhere and spend the extra gas money to get to work?"

    Long story. Best answer on both sides (along 13) is to be near friends and family. To paraphrase an old saying, Carbondale is a nice place to visit but I sure wouldn't want to live there. And actually where I live now is closer to work. : ;)

  23. USN420
    Report Abuse
    USN420 - October 01, 2012 9:41 pm
    StraightTalk... I do not disagree with your perception. My personal history with Carbondale only goes back about 20-years or so, but I do know people in the neighborhoods you mention. Nice homes which were built in the late 1950's and 1960's and some still house long-term residents. (Now retired Professors, Doctor's, etc.) But they are reduced in number every year.

    Although SIU is an unparallelled economic engine for Southern Illinois in general and Carbondale in particular, the influence has not all been positive. In fact, it has been far from it.

    For a long time, the City planners have allowed (Fostered?) a "renters" mentality above an "owners" mentality. There is a huge difference in the two. All major developments in this town since I have lived here have been devoted to large apartment complexes, not single family homes. The housing stock has been allowed to be converted into rental property or to simply age out, while communities to the East have concentrated on developing single family homes and attracting "families" to move there. They are attracting long-term residents with a stake in the community, while we attract and even recruit more transients.

    MickeeD's post helps to make my next point... I find it really ironic that the liberal mentality and atmosphere of tolerance that SIU brings to Carbondale, is not the favored way of living for a huge number of the staff and faculty, who have chosen to live elsewhere and commute to Carbondale for work. MickeeD, why did you elect to live elsewhere and spend the extra gas money to get to work?

    The question that needs to be asked is... "Why?" Unfortunately, we are not allowed to openly discuss it... Why?...because of posts like SmallVoiceSI's above.

    Go ask 25 people why they chose to purchase a home in Carterville, Marion, or Herrin instead of Carbondale even though they work here and here's what you will hear: 1.) The schools are better. 2.) Crime is lower. 3.) Property taxes are cheaper. or 4.) I couldn't find an acceptable home. Again... the question needing to be asked is "Why" all four of those things are true. (And they are true.)

    As Carbondale continues to open it's arms to more and more transient citizens, and SIU continues to lower admission standards to keep the classrooms full, we are going to see this slow downward spiral continue. It is inevitable.

    The well being of Carbondale and of the University are inexorably linked together, but I'm afraid neither entity has the political will to take the necessary steps to turn things around.
  24. MickeeD
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    MickeeD - October 01, 2012 7:02 pm
    Well said. I wasn't around 20 years ago but I agree with your observation. I've commuted to Carbondale to work since I got up here. The town is changing. This latest drop in enrollment left a lot of us with a feeling like we were punched in the stomach. Something's got to turn around
  25. SmallVoiceSI
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    SmallVoiceSI - October 01, 2012 6:55 pm
    Yup. The conservative thing to do is keep those other people out of our good towns and keep them in their own ghettos. Liberal do-gooder segregation policies are ruining our country and we must take it back from them!
  26. StraightTalk
    Report Abuse
    StraightTalk - October 01, 2012 5:44 pm
    USN420...you very effectively spelled out the problems of Carbondale, except for your last paragraph. I can see that from your perspective of living there 20-25 years ago, you might think the way you do. However, being someone who very sadly and reluctantly left Carbondale in the mid 1960's, I can tell you that the university IS exactly what is wrong with Carbondale and created the atmosphere that is so disgusting. At one time before the Chicago influence dominated the town, Carbondale was filled with respectful people who carried the historic traditions from generation to generation. Then, around the same time that Americans began to disrespect their own country and military with protests and other disgraceful conduct, that is the same time that these life long citizens began to vacate. What were once wonderful homes became multi-unit off campus housing, bars opened up owned by outsiders, well respected downtown business closed or moved. What is the solution to the growing degradation Carbondale, even though a declining SIU will remain? The solution will come when the "good citizens" left in Carbondale stand up and tell their elected officials that enough is enough. Sadly, this uprising usually only occurs when something horrific happens such as an innocent being injured, murdered or raped. I say, it can turn around, Carbondale could be a great little college town again, but not without some serious conservative actions.
  27. USN420
    Report Abuse
    USN420 - October 01, 2012 4:10 pm
    Don't just look at the arrest records... take a look at the police call blotter and see exactly what calls our police have to respond to. Look at where 80 to 90% of their time is spent... exactly which neighborhoods. Not all calls result in an arrest, but still require an extensive use of resources. It is a bad reflection on our town.

    This is NOT the same Carbondale of 20 - 25 years ago, and most of that change has NOT been for the good. The outward migration of our middle class, professional families has accelerated at a large rate the last 15-years and can be readily seen by the new housing starts and home sales in Carterville, Marion, and Williamson County during that period.

    Professional, educated, middle class families are choosing to live in Carterville & Marion while driving into Carbondale to work. The question Carbondale won't ask or address is... Why?

    The ONLY thing that has prevented this downward slope from steepening out of control has been the presence of the University, but there is only so much the school can do. Our fates are tied together. As the crime rates in town continue to rise, and as more affluent residents continue to reside elsewhere, enrollment at SIU continues to go down as well.

    Where does the spiral end and what action will Carbondale take to slow the migration?
  28. coal miner
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    coal miner - October 01, 2012 2:09 pm
    Carbondale is turning into a ghetto. Get rid of the section 8 housing, and the government housing projects before it takes the whole university down. For every one of these events that makes the paper, there are several that occur and are not publicized. The whole inner core of the town has severely degraded over the last 10 years or so.
  29. JItterBug
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    JItterBug - October 01, 2012 10:37 am
    I grew up in C'dale. I live in Chicago now and I'm telling this looks REALLY BAD when this stuff happens.

    SIU enrollment goes straight down when this happens. Carbondale is getting a really bad rep up here. Parents don't want to send their kids to SIU due to safety issues.

    I don't know the solution exactly but the powers that be in C'dale need to address this.
  30. MickeeD
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    MickeeD - October 01, 2012 10:22 am
    No. It is not a common practice to search people in the Carbondale bars. It's usually enough to have a doorman checking ID. I would imagine for certain events though a search might be warranted I've worked my share of concerts elsewhere where a metal detector is a good idea.
  31. SouthernILGirl
    Report Abuse
    SouthernILGirl - October 01, 2012 10:19 am
    LR, I am not sure if it is common practice, but it seems to be a wise one. If more bars denied entry based on searches, maybe the 'thugs" would keep their @sses at home and not out starting fights. (Or maybe their would realize they can't get by with taking weapons into bars and Carbondale would be a tiny bit more safe.)
  32. Leaningright
    Report Abuse
    Leaningright - October 01, 2012 9:44 am
    First, while keeping these thugs out of the bar by demanding a search was a good thing, it is sad that a bar owner feels the need to search them in the first place. I don't frequent the bar scene in town latenight, is this a common practice at all the bars? The scary part of this as usual is the number of thugs walking around town armed, while all of us law abiding citizens have to keep our weapons at home. Something isn't right.
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